Odds and ends
- The Wall Street Journal reports that the special benefits of the Cuban Adjustment Act are now being extended to people who were born and lived in third countries – but whose parents are Cuban. 3,400 immigrants were in this category last year.
- A Fidel Castro commentary reports in detail on the visit of a seven-member Congressional delegation led by Rep. Barbara Lee of California. One of the members said, according to Fidel, that “Obama will change policy toward Cuba, but Cuba should help him too.” The delegation had talks with Raul Castro yesterday; AP coverage here.
- Former Jesse Helms staffer Marc Thiessen recounts a 1998 conversation in Havana with Ricardo Alarcon in a Washington Post op-ed. Until now, I had thought the most interesting thing about that staff trip was that a Cuban intelligence agent, Ana Montes, had gone along for the ride.
- The Administration’s coordinator for the upcoming hemispheric summit in Trinidad says it would be “unfortunate” if Cuba were to be a main theme of the meeting, and looks ahead to an announcement of policy changes before the summit. Herald coverage here; AP here.
The silence is deafening! What happened to the posters just when things were getting interesting? The CBC delegation was accompanied by five DOD representatives so I am assuming that the question that they asked in Havana was Deal or No Deal?
ReplyDeleteIf Havana agrees to a dialogue, the Cuban government will fall within a year. The perceived elimination of the Cuban Adjustment Act will trigger an exodus that will make Mariel look like a quaint family boating trip that could only be stopped by massive represion on both sides of the Florida Strait. The counter-problem is that if Havana declines the dialogue this week, their entire diplomatic offensive going into the Trinidad summit would fall apart, and therefore their support among Latin American and Caribbean countries will dissipate. If they agree to the dialogue, they also lose the support of these countries because all the Cuba-USA issues become bilateral issues. So much for Martí's admonition that Cuba was to prevent the USA from swallowing the Latin countries.
Unrabidly waiting for the usual vitriol!
Vecino de NF
Vecino de NF
I'm just glad to see my family in cuba!! Can't wait.
ReplyDeleteFamily trumps politics - got that miami?
Whose handle is miami?
ReplyDeleteBy the way I agree that family should trump politics. That's one of the reason that I found odious about the restriction imposed on Cuban Communist Party (PCC) and Cuban Communist Youth (JCU) militants (read members) on their contacts with their families abroad. Does anyone know if they are still in-force? Do they still have to report to their party cell any contacts they have with anyone living abroad (en el exterior)?
Also family contacts are good. They brought us Mariel I. I look forward to Mariel II.
Unrabidly yours!
Vecino de NF
As far as I know there is no restrictions for party members to have contact with friends and family abroad, but they need to request authorization from the party to travel outside Cuba. In any case the party membership is voluntary, if they impose some kind of silly restriction just quit and thats it. After all most of the cubans are NOT members of the party or the UJC.
ReplyDeleteThere are some restriction for military personal and such, I think they should inform in advance and thats it.
It is interesting that comment about the cuban government falling within a year if they agreed to a dialoge, care to explain your reasoning?
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 11:50 AM,
ReplyDeleteThe only reason that the Cuban government has for existing is to oppose American imperialism. Normal relations with the USA eliminates that reason. (see Fidel Castro's letter to Celia Sanchez on the eve of winning the uprising against Batista). Cubans are rightly proud of the fact that for over 50 years they were fighting Yanqui imperialism in every corner of the world and for that they put up with a lot of privations and restrictions. I doubt they would put up with the same privations and restrictions to keep the current government dictating every aspect of their daily lives with no rewards in sight (normal trading relations with the US will not translate into immediate improvements in living conditions in Cuba)
Normal relations with the USA would also eliminate the rationale for the Cuban Adjustment Act (CAA). Once the Cuban population realizes that immigration to the US will be limited to the normal quota (20,000+ a year), there will be a rush to get to the US before the CAA expires. This will be incredibly messy on both sides of the Florida strait.
Both of these would translate into incredible social and political pressures that would lead to a change in government.
I may be wrong but I would like my mistakes pointed out rather than simply insulted.
Unrabidly yours,
Vecino de NF
Vecino, I do agree that the CAA needs to be handled delicately. The best move would be to drop it out of nowhere. And the US needs to be absolutely clear that we will committ all necessary resources to prevent people from reaching the US. The US will bear the responsibility of how this is carried out. But this idea of a mass exodus is often overplayed.
ReplyDeleteI understand the point about Cuban nationalism and the importance of resistance in Cuba's idea of itself. But there is no reason Cuba can't continue its historic role as a watchdog of the Empire if the blockade and travel bans are lifted. I don't see the Revolution cowing to anyone at this point. Lifting the restrictions will be a historic victory that the Cuban people will be grateful for. Not to mention the extra money and fantastic growth rates that will ensue. You are still banking on the idea of a fragile and unsustainable Revolution when everything we know for the last 50 years tells us exactly the opposite.
Leftside,
ReplyDeleteI let the math speak for itself. Minimum wage in Florida is $7.21 per hour. That means that anyone lucky enough to have a full-time job in Florida earns US$14,997 per year. The average monthly wage in Cuba in 2007 was Cu$408 (pesos) or Cu$4,896 (pesos) per year. At the unrealistic official exchange rate that would translate to 32% of the Florida minimum wage. At a more realistic exchange rate that would translate to ~US$250 or 1.7% of the Florida annual minimum salary. I know that you can argue that a worker in Cuba pays nothing for medical care and almost nothing for housing, but a young person in Cuba looks at his home in Cuba and would tell you that he is being overcharged for housing, and that he is healthy so why bother with free medical care. This is the type of person that would emigrate at the drop of a hat or the rumour that CAA would be gone shortly. He/she wants to dance the night away in SoBe with his own cash not beg a tourist for a good time in exchange for sex. And so far I am only talking about the least skilled and educated individuals. Any young professional knows that he/she can improve his/her living standards almost astronomically by leaving Cuba. (Once again I am talking in general terms, every person is different but politics is not about individuals).
Cuba would need between US$10 billion and US$20 billion per year to even provide something close to 10% of the Florida minimum wage to every Cuban. I don't think that lifting the embargo would produce that even with relaxed credit (what's that?) terms, and US government aid (Israel gets the most, and it doesn't get that much). I doubt that any of the seven Congresspeople in Cuba would push for such a massive aid package for Cuba. They would love to see the Cuban Revolution succeed but not on their district's nickel. (If you don't believe me, call their offices in DC and ask them how much aid are they willing to appropriate for Cuba.)
So tell me how does Raul Castro, Machado Ventura, and the other gerontocrats convince the regular José in Cuba that Cuba's job from now on is to keep the US in the straight and narrow path of being a responsible superpower? Only through repression would be my answer. And that Leftside can only be kept up if you are fighting for an ideal. Otherwise there is no spiritual profit in it only sadism, and there are not enough altruistic sadist in this world that are willing to repress for free.
Skeptically yours,
Vecino de NF
Leftside,
ReplyDeleteI let the math speak for itself. Minimum wage in Florida is $7.21 per hour. That means that anyone lucky enough to have a full-time job in Florida earns US$14,997 per year. The average monthly wage in Cuba in 2007 was Cu$408 (pesos) or Cu$4,896 (pesos) per year. At the unrealistic official exchange rate that would translate to 32% of the Florida minimum wage. At a more realistic exchange rate that would translate to ~US$250 or 1.7% of the Florida annual minimum salary. I know that you can argue that a worker in Cuba pays nothing for medical care and almost nothing for housing, but a young person in Cuba looks at his home in Cuba and would tell you that he is being overcharged for housing, and that he is healthy so why bother with free medical care. This is the type of person that would emigrate at the drop of a hat or the rumour that CAA would be gone shortly. He/she wants to dance the night away in SoBe with his own cash not beg a tourist for a good time in exchange for sex. And so far I am only talking about the least skilled and educated individuals. Any young professional knows that he/she can improve his/her living standards almost astronomically by leaving Cuba. (Once again I am talking in general terms, every person is different but politics is not about individuals).
Cuba would need between US$10 billion and US$20 billion per year to even provide something close to 10% of the Florida minimum wage to every Cuban. I don't think that lifting the embargo would produce that even with relaxed credit (what's that?) terms, and US government aid (Israel gets the most, and it doesn't get that much). I doubt that any of the seven Congresspeople in Cuba would push for such a massive aid package for Cuba. They would love to see the Cuban Revolution succeed but not on their district's nickel. (If you don't believe me, call their offices in DC and ask them how much aid are they willing to appropriate for Cuba.)
So tell me how does Raul Castro, Machado Ventura, and the other gerontocrats convince the regular José in Cuba that Cuba's job from now on is to keep the US in the straight and narrow path of being a responsible superpower? Only through repression would be my answer. And that Leftside can only be kept up if you are fighting for an ideal. Otherwise there is no spiritual profit in it only sadism, and there are not enough altruistic sadist in this world that are willing to repress for free.
Skeptically yours,
Vecino de NF
Thats pretty naive, the rate of conversion between CUC and CUP is completely artificial, in an event of massive hard currency injection the cuban government has plenty of space to maneuver from the actual 25:1 to around the 1:2 that should be (it was 1:7 BEFORE the crisis)
ReplyDeleteThis would solve for once the problem of the dual currency and the government could emerge strengthened, depending how it handles the situation.
BTW, the OFFICIAL change rate is sill 1:1, the 25:1 is the CADECA exchange rate. Cuba has strong market segmentation, with two different currencies and six independent market segments that can't interact freely.
If you think that cubans earn only $20 at month you are grossly misinformed, if that were the case they would overthrown the government decades ago.
Anonymous 4:40 PM,
ReplyDeleteI gave all the raw data. Anyone can use the FX rate they consider appropriate. Focusing on the math does not address the main point of the analysis: normalization of relations between Cuba and the USA would eliminate the main reason for the Cuban Revolution, and would bring strong pressures on the Cuban government to change.
By the way the Congressional delegation in Cuba is extremely partisan, and unfortunately does not represent any sort of Congressional consensus. They may serve as a conduit of Cuban intentions but they are definitely not representative of the US position vis-a-vis Cuba. If this is the first move in the process, some more weightier names need to be added to the mix. If I was Fidel or Raul, I would be insulted if this delegation is the best the USA can send.
Still unrabidly skeptical,
Vecino de NF
And thats why you are naive. The point of the cuban revolution is not being confrontational with US, but to prove that they can have its own way, and THAT canot be forgiven.
ReplyDeleteHave you stop to think about what is special about cuba from US angle? Brutal dictatorship? They have put far worse in power and supported them unconditionally until the very end. Violations of human rights? More of the same, plus the huge shame of abul grahib and gitmo. Commie state? Don't US owe their arse to their newest best buddy, China?
There is but a single reason for the US government being that confrontational with Cuba all this time, and is that they only accept ONE way in Latin America, its own. Period.
Anonymous 6:05PM,
ReplyDeleteI would agree that in 1959-1963 years the US could not forgive the idea of a communist regime in Latin America, and that the Kennedy's administration actions were largely motivated by revenge (Bobby Kennedy could never accept being licked!) but since then the US effort has accepted extremely nationalistic policies in Latin America (see creation of PDVSA in Venezuela by nationalization of Esso now Exxon, and other US oil companies in the 1970s) to the point that when Chavez nationalized large US investments in Venezuela there was no official US reaction. Trade and political contacts continued.
Fidel Castro made it a point to fight US imperialism all around the world starting in the Spring of 1959. As a matter of fact that is the main historical accomplishment of the Cuban Revolution. His alignment with the former Soviet Union to the point of stating in the Cuban constitution that the ultimate ideological leader in Cuba was the Soviet Union can be easily documented not to mention the fact that he asked Nikita Krushev to nuke the US in a first strike.
I understand that we have a difference of opinion whether the Cuban Revolution can survive without the life and death struggle against US imperialism, but please out of respect to all the dead internationalist fighters including Che Guevara and his Cuban companions please do not dismiss the true calling of the Cuban Revolution during the last 50 years. That true calling was inimical to US interests during the last 50 years.
Sorry for getting a little rabid!
Vecino de NF
Again, Castro was forced to fall into the soviet Orbit. The nationalization process in 1959 was completely legal, it was the US government the one who refuse to accept monetary indemnification for the nationalized companies and escalated the hostilities by cutting the sugar quota and supporting military opposition to the government.
ReplyDeleteAnd I'm not dismissing anything, the cuban support for the liberation movements in Latin America and Africa weren't specially aimed against EEUU, but against oppressive regimes and bloodied military dictatorships. The fact that most often than not the bad guys were supported by the US is just a side effect of the cold war.
And for the missile crisis... are you joking, right? No one in his sane senses would launch a nuclear attack at that time, the presence of the nukes were a deterrent for ANOTHER military invasion.
A few years ago they had conversations about the crisis, and the cubans disclassified the nuke inventory \t th\t time. Most of the warheads were short range small tactical weapons for defensive use against troop concentrations, and even the larger ones has a maximum reach of 800km, thats not enough to start the WW3.
Arguing for nothing. The USA has decided it is time to officially become friends with the Castro regime, while Fidel is still alive. If this is seen as a reward, so be it. There must be an unknown- to us-reason for it. And Fidel knows it. And he'll make adjustments, whatever adjustments he needs to make, if he decides to go along wiht it. Nothing left to say, except wait and see how the situation develops. I always distrust the American imperialist mind-set and modus operandi, just as I disrust Castro. But that is besides the point. This is a momvement that is gaining momentum. I am just watching to see what happens. By the way, why would Fidel quote an unnamed congressman saying Obama can't lift the embargo because that would jeopardize his reelection? I don't think anyone truly believes that and "the anti-Cuban right-wing" is not that powerful. Fidel should know better than that, I would think.
ReplyDeletelet the math speak for itself. Minimum wage in Florida is $7.21 per hour....
ReplyDeleteVecino, your math focussing on wages leaves out a whole lot. Yes, of course wages are much higher in Florida, but why is the average Floridian in more debt than the average Cuban? In Cuba, costs for many of the things to you need to live and enjoy life are dirt cheap. Yes, some in Cuba want the Florida lifestyle they think exists, but most in Miami toil for low wages and live in crappy places with no extra money - certainly not for South Beach.
Cuba would need between US$10 billion and US$20 billion per year to even provide something close to 10% of the Florida
Cuba does not require aid, only a fair chance. If the CAA was shut down tonight without warning and Cuba's special "refugee" migration spots were axed, I have little doubt that migration rates from Cuba to the US would slow to much less than half what they are today. With the travel and embargo dropped, Cuba would be the fastest growing economy around and many, in fact, would go back to Cuba.
And that Leftside can only be kept up if you are fighting for an ideal.
Cuba will be fighting for an ideal forever, I hope. Neighbors can be friendly and critical too. The degree of warmth will always depend more on the US side than Cuban.
vecino;
ReplyDeletegetting a wee bit rabid there aren't you?
the problem with the anti revolution side is their consistent mis-reading of history. the revolution was by nature anti-american because America was the colonizer. the american revolution was by definition anti-british, because?? same reasons. but the british and americans seem to have gotten along shortly (not immediately) aftetrwards
and you know why, because the british finally accepted the concept of american sovereignty. the americans, never accepted the idea of Cuban self-determination. They finally may be realizing that now. It's because the revolution has survived for 50 years, and while change and reform will come, the concept of Cuban sovereignty under a socialist system is ingrained and won't be negotiated. And that's the true accomplishment of the revolution, the permanent change it has brought to the historic Cuban-American relationship.
all your comments on Cuba's internationalism are meaningless. It's called a foreign policy, one that the US has as well. And millions leaving Cuba re immigration? Neither side would allow that, and it won't happen. But you know what, end the travel restrictions, embargo, terrorist acts, etc and lets see what'll happen. For 50 years the rabid (not you, not you) right wing has made predictions that have been 100 per cent false. the string will continue.
anonimo
I respectfully disagree with the point of view that Castro was pushed into the Soviet orbit. I base my analysis on official sources: both Cuban, and American. As far as Fidel Castro telling Khruschev to launch a nuclear first strike, it is not hearsay. It's in his letter to Khruschev that was published officially when they had the seminars about the Missile Crisis with historical representatives from all three sides: Cuba, Soviet Union, and USA. It was specially telling that McNamara admitted that the Kennedy administration did not know that there were short range nuclear weapons in Cuba at the time the US was considering invading Cuba. I agree that nuclear war is the ultimate madness but the historical record shows that FC in his youthful exuberance was willing to launch it. Luckily for all parties he did not have access to the launch codes. That letter will be his indictment by history. By the way this letter was discussed by PCC militants in Cuba as part of their official ideological discussions.
ReplyDeleteI would add a new twist to these postings. FC in his last reflection may be telling the Cuban people that Cuba may need to change to advance the Socialist revolution in the USA by assuring the reelection of a progressive President and progressive politicians in the Congress. This would not be the first time he tells the Cuban people that there will be a significant ideological change for a larger world goal. Some examples of this in the past have been:
1. Support for the 1968 Warsaw Pact invasion of Czechoslovakia that was seen in the Third World as an imperialist act.
2. Acceptance of Soviet planning of the Cuban economy after the debacle of the 1969-70 sugar harvest.
3. Ordering the PCC militants not to interfere and to attend the Pope John Paul II's events in Cuba after decades of repression of all religious activities.
The question that remains to be answered is if the Cuban people are willing to continue their sacrifice to get President Obama reelected. I suspect that the answer is no.
As far as my other comments, I disagree with the replies but appreciate the respectful tone. Heck if Thiesen and Alarcón can have a respectful conversation why couldn't we in this blog.
Much less rabid but still skeptical,
Vecino de NF
"The nationalization process in 1959 was completely legal"
ReplyDeleteUmm, actually, it wasn't at all legal. The 1940 Constitution did not provide for that sort of action. It protected private property.
And I'm not talking about foreign owned property. I'm talking about Cuban property.
Fidel treated the Cuban people like his own grocery store. It's good to be the king.
vecino
ReplyDeleteyou seem more of a moderate but still can't accept historic reality.
of course cuba was pushed into the soviet sphere -- one side ends trade, refuses to sell arms, invades your country, commits thousands of terrorist acts. the other side offers to trade, sell arms, provide protection, offers friendship. which side would you move towards
soviets had nothing to do with Triumph, no aid, no arms, nothing. of course fidel, raul, che had socialist ideology, re land reform, removal of imperialism, etc. but it was americans unrelenting aggression that gave fidel no choice but become marxist/leninist. if US had been smarter, had treated cuba differently, accepted the revolution and worked within instead of trying to destroy it; things could have been different. Im referring to the first five years of the revolution by 1968 cuba had no choice but to move to soviet sphere if it wanted to survive. this is not up for dispute. but the soviet-cuba relationship was never as smooth as most think.
if the US hadn't invaded Cuba once at Bay of Pigs, or had concrete plans for another invasion, the missile crisis and all that craziness would not have happened. condemn Fidel for wanting to push the button, i agree, but hold equal condemnation for american action that put him in that state.
you say cuban govt wouldn't last once embargo etc ended. lets find out. fidel and raul have called for normalization, but rightfully noted they are not the aggressor in all this, it is for the US to change. if you think the revolution is so weak after 50 years it will collapse when normalization happens, then you should be working hard to that goal. i suspect once again you'd be wrong.
anonimo
vecino
ReplyDeletequick question; do you want the cuban government reformed or destroyed?
anonimo
anon 10:47
ReplyDeletethat's a rather silly question. how do you reform an illegitimate government so corrupt and morally bankrupt?
i think destruction of the system is the only way towards progress, a re-institution of the 1940 Constitution, multi-party elections and trials for those known to have taken part in the more serious crimes (of course trials are a doubtful outcome, I'd venture to guess that most just want to forget and move on).
Anónimo,
ReplyDeleteAnswer to your quick question:
I want to live in a world where respect for the truth is central. I know that truth is an elusive concept but the process to seek it is well understood. On the other hand lies are very obvious to objective observers, and usually to those that tell them. Do you think that the Cuban government can function without lies? If it can, I would be for reforming it. If not, it should be destroyed.
If the current Cuban legislation is applied truthfully, Fidel Castro, Raul Castro and many if not all of the upper schelons of the Cuban government would be thrown in jail or executed for multiple crimes. They know it, and that's why they repress. I am indiferent about Cuba's socioeconomic order as long as it is derived from an open and free discussion of its citizens without coercion from either the government, political forces, or foreign entities. My adherence to that basic democratic principle comes out of a conviction that if there is an open healthy discussion followed by agreement you are less likely to have conflicts with your neighbors, and I am definitely a neighbor (vecino) ;-)
Unrabidly yours,
Vecino de NF
PS To other posters, we disagree about the historical record. It would take a lot of space to enumerate the sources for my analysis about whether the Cuban Revolution was pushed or jumped into the Soviet orbit. Maybe some other time! If it is any comfort, it appears that this difference of option is part of a debate held in the loftiest academic circles. Policy circles do not really care about history except as indicators for future behavior.
anon 1047, thanks for your honesty, if not your grasp of reality. those who want to destroy; step aside, your relevance is no longer needed. get over it, it won't be destroyed, and your extremism and right wing talking points just don't matter anymore. but thanks for coming.
ReplyDeleteThe answer to you remark is pretty evident, they don't lie, they might manipulate truth to fits their needs but they won't openly lie.
ReplyDeleteComparatively, the cuban community in exile is full of crap.
And the so called repression in cuba is not what you think it is. Don't believe my words, just go there and see it for yourself.
vecino, truth and lies are relative, and in cubas case it really is perspective. be very careful though as history is about to pass you bye and you will see this regime is legitimate, open for reform, but unwilling to compromise its self-determination.
ReplyDeleteyou cling to outmoded ideals and apply concepts that you refuse to recognize are untrue. that's you opinion. the vast majority is moving on, american aggression of cuba may end sooner than later and the natural progression of cuban socialism will be allowed to occur. many changes are needed, right now those who oppose dialogue, continue to threaten the regime with all sorts of crimes etc, then your time is over. thank goodness.
the worst part of it all is these gusanos shouting from outside cuba demanding this and that, claiming expertise where none exists, and just don't get it.
see ya
anonimo
anon 11:43
ReplyDeletethat's an odd remark to make in response to my post - seeing as how I'm a liberal democrat.
i believe in the inherent freedoms granted to every human being at birth, and when governments become drunk with power and began to act against the will and best interests of its people - ala Cuba, Zimbabwe, Burma and the like - it is our responsibility as human beings to support the transformation or destruction of those governments in order to make way for a system of government that is run through elections and respect for human rights - BY THE PEOPLE.
it has nothing to with the fact that i am a democrat, or that you are a republican, independent or otherwise. political affiliation is not relevant in the grand sphere of basic human rights and simply humanity.
"Umm, actually, it wasn't at all legal. The 1940 Constitution did not provide for that sort of action. It protected private property."
ReplyDeleteUmm, actually the constitution of 1940 was NOT in effect after the coup d’état of Batista in 1952. And yes, nationalizations are covered by UN treaties, so yes, they are legal, specially when they payed every penny to every company NOT american.
Batista couldn't legally suspend the constitution of 1940 because he wasn't legally elected in the first place.
ReplyDeleteSecondly, castro's platform for seizing power was the reinstituion of the 1940 document.
Done.
Learn your history then come back to me.
Wow, and how many pennies were paid to the Cuban people for all the private property stolen from them?
ReplyDeleteHmmmmmm . . . . . .
Arbitrary seizure is not protected by any legal framework. Especially when ownership goes directly to an unelected dictator.
Well, it is weird to put in the same basket the governments of Cuba and Zimbawe. The cuban government has worked hard for make of Cuba a better place that mcuh even their enemies recognize, and they do support even more human rights that US does.
ReplyDeleteAlso they do have free elections and people are not coerced to vote AFAIK. Moreover, in the last few elections more than 90% of the population voted so even when it works different you can't call that undemocratic at all, specially when you don't have to be member of the party to be postulated and elected for regional and national assemblies.
"Batista couldn't legally suspend the constitution of 1940 because he wasn't legally elected in the first place."
ReplyDeleteThats a really stupid remark, if it was legally or not is not the issue, the constitution wasn't in place, thats all.
"Secondly, castro's platform for seizing power was the reinstituion of the 1940 document."
Castro platform for seizing power included the agrary reform and limited nationalizations of some industries. The nationalization chain was a reaction to US hostilities derived from that.
nice try 12:10
ReplyDeleteI was never permitted to vote for any presidential candidate other than Fidel Castro.
There are no political parties in Cuba other than the PC and the formation of opposition parties is illegal.
And yes, we are routinely coerced to vote. Try running as an opposition candidate in a regional election and see what happens with the CDR. This isn't exactly "new" news, anon. Don't play the part of the naive schoolboy who just "didn't know."
"The cuban government has worked hard for make of Cuba a better place"
Right, so paramilitary deathsquads, re-education camps, mass censorship, abhorent hospital care unless your a government fatcat or a foreigner, inability to travel outside the island without the government's "permission" - which is then routinely denied, the enriching of the rulers while the ruled are left in poverty, the lack of free elections, . . . these are all making Cuba a better place?
I've said it before on this site - you and those like you preach hatred of the Cuban people simply because we are a Latin-American minority - simply because of that, we need to have a strong-arm dictator keep us in line. Are we lacking of the necessary mental faculties to forge our own destiny? And thus require a caudillo to literally force the bread down our throats?
You and your are bigots of the worst kind. It needs to be said - clear and in unwavering fashion. People have been tiptoeing around that subject for too long.
Get this through your head:
WE ARE HUMAN BEINGS!
Chivatos like you are among the lowest forms of life and while your rhetoric of contempt for us is disgusting at best, I will always support your right to spew it out. That sentiment comes from living ina place like Cuba.
"Batista couldn't legally suspend the constitution of 1940 because he wasn't legally elected in the first place."
ReplyDeleteThats a really stupid remark, if it was legally or not is not the issue, the constitution wasn't in place, thats all.
RESPONSE:
You're just not getting it. Batista "suspension" of the constitution was null and void because he was not a legitimate leader. He seized power in a coup in 1952.
The document was still in effect - legally speaking.
There is no arguing that. It is simple logic.
Next . . . .
"You're just not getting it. Batista "suspension" of the constitution was null and void because he was not a legitimate leader. He seized power in a coup in 1952.
ReplyDeleteThe document was still in effect - legally speaking."
You lost it completely. The "law" was what Batista government fits to fill the word, the constitution was just a piece of paper without any legal value whatsoever.
Anónimo,
ReplyDeleteI take it that if you believe that "truth and lies are relative", then you must believe that it could be you who history will bypass, and that it may be you who is clinging to outmoded ideas. A few years ago there were those who believed that history as a dialectic process had ended, and here we are with a resurgence of political movements that find inspiration in Marxism. Hopefully we will see how things evolve in Cuba and between Cuba and the US.
I am sure that I'll find other things to comment unless somebody decides to repress me for good. I hope that we can agree to disagree.
Unrabidly yours,
Vecino de NF
"I was never permitted to vote for any presidential candidate other than Fidel Castro."
ReplyDeleteSorry? From what country are you?
You NEVER voted for castro, you voted for the members of the national assembly and they voted a president, thats how it works.
"And yes, we are routinely coerced to vote."
No, you not. AFAIK the voting ballots are custodied by children and the vote is secret.
"Try running as an opposition candidate in a regional election and see what happens with the CDR."
You don't get it, you can postulate youself even if you are not a member of the party, if noone votes by you bad luck and move forward.
"Right, so paramilitary deathsquads, re-education camps, mass censorship, abhorent hospital care unless your a government fatcat or a foreigner, inability to travel outside the island without the government's "permission" - which is then routinely denied, the enriching of the rulers while the ruled are left in poverty, the lack of free elections, . . . these are all making Cuba a better place?"
Care to provide PROOF of that silly rant for once?
12:39
ReplyDeleteYou have either never read an substantial amount of Cuban history or, you wish to twist history to meet your own agenda.
The world knows Cuba's track record - it's not exactly a state secret.
"You NEVER voted for castro, you voted for the members of the national assembly and they voted a president, thats how it works."
That's a large part of the fucking point.
what country am I from? what country do you think i'm from?
this is complete and utter insanity.
put your clan hood back on, light up a cross and relax.
Anonymous 12:39 PM,
ReplyDeleteI hate to get in the middle of another argument, but maybe you are missing a basic point. Trying to investigate or report on any problem without official sanction is illegal in Cuba. So you can never prove any wrongdoing by government officials unless it has been determined by the Central Committee of the Cuban Communist Party that you are allowed to do it to serve a Central Committee political purpose. This stops the natural evolution of Cuban society. It is not a problem for the Miami Cubans. It is a huge problem for the Cubans in Cuba because every aspect of daily living. Complaining about perceived wrongs is healthy even if the complainer happens to be wrong because it makes the society more capable to determine livable outcomes. The current Cuban government doesn't want that because it perceives any criticism as subversive. Once again I repeat: this is a problem for the Cubans in Cuba. I personally think that it would be to their advantage to change that modus operandi.
Unrabidly yours,
Vecino de NF
death squads in cuba; please provide proof. just once, provide proof instead of continuing the hatred.
ReplyDelete"Trying to investigate or report on any problem without official sanction is illegal in Cuba. So you can never prove any wrongdoing by government officials unless it has been determined by the Central Committee of the Cuban Communist Party that you are allowed to do it to serve a Central Committee political purpose."
ReplyDeleteNo, you are wrong in this. You can do whatever you want without breaking the law and then submit the result to the police. The thing is, corruption is so widespread that that is likely that lots of people cover each other, in that scenario is really hard to gather evidence without breaking the law, but you can submit anonymous calls to the police if you want.
BTW, those are the called "chivatos" someone mentioned earlier.
"The current Cuban government doesn't want that because it perceives any criticism as subversive."
No, they don't. There is a legitimate, constructive criticism that usually is welcomed, but few people makes use of it anyways.
Death Squads:
ReplyDeleteWhat the hell do you think happened to the hundreds of people murdered extrajudicially in La Cabana?
Who the hell do you think is buried in the mass graves on the eastern end of the island? The fucking easter bunny?
Go get your head out of your ass and try a little fucking humanity.
Gloves are off - you people are sick brutes. I hope you one day get to experience what it's like to have someone knock on your door, drag you out into the street and make you disappear simply because you don't agree with the "government" I pray that day will come for you. Because you absolutely, 100 percent deserve it you heartless fucking bastard.
Anonymous 1:04 PM,
ReplyDeleteCurrent Cuban law is very explicit in what is allowed (very little) and not allowed (almost all) by independent citizens. This combined with the principle of democratic centralism that articulates the leading role of the Cuban Communist Party (PCC) in society and government as detailed in the Constitution prevents any independent investigation of anything in Cuba. Dr. Biscet first got in trouble after he denounced what he felt was an inordinate amount of voluntary abortions in a Cuban Hospital. Another Dr. was thrown in jail for detailing the spread of a dengue epidemic in Santiago de Cuba in the 1990s. You can denounce whatever you want in Cuba, but you run the risk that the political structures accuse you of being a counter-revolutionary and your life can be turned upside down not to mention jail or worst.
One glaring example is the Ochoa case. The entire MININT was decimated from the Minister Abrahantes down to the lowest officer. Half of the Ochoa case involved MINFAR officers. Raul Castro was never disciplined for his responsibility as minister of the MINFAR. Could anyone in Cuba ever brought this up in the press, a Party meeting, etc? I would be interested in knowing of one single event of any criticism in Cuba of any decision taken by Fidel Castro or Raul Castro that did not bring adverse consequences to the critic.
The right of criticize belongs to the critic not to the audience or the object of the criticism. That the Cuba people are afraid to criticize the power structures is self-evident.
For once I would like to hear a direct recognition from the Cuban side that based on that our wine is sour but it is our wine, might makes right in Cuba. Then a constructive legitimate dialogue could be started if it is truly desired.
Vecino de NF
"What the hell do you think happened to the hundreds of people murdered extrajudicially in La Cabana?"
ReplyDeleteYou mean the torturers and murderers from Batista dictatorship? Those were summary executions, not extrajudicial ones and for the most part were well deserved. Did you know those people (together with quite a few who fleed and now live happily in florida) killed thousands of cubans in the years of Batista dictatorship?
"Who the hell do you think is buried in the mass graves on the eastern end of the island? The fucking easter bunny?"
Again, provide evidence of those mass graves and prove that those were made by revolutionary authorities and not by the previous dictatorships. That would make really good headlines in the news.
"I hope you one day get to experience what it's like to have someone knock on your door, drag you out into the street and make you disappear simply because you don't agree with the "government" "
Hmmm... whose government you mean? Pinochet? Somoza? Trujillo? There are not missing people in Cuba, just a few dozens of so called "political prisioners", mostly accused of collaborate with a foreign power to overtrhown the government (aka, receive funds from USA)
"Current Cuban law is very explicit in what is allowed (very little) and not allowed (almost all) by independent citizens. This combined with the principle of democratic centralism that articulates the leading role of the Cuban Communist Party (PCC) in society and government as detailed in the Constitution prevents any independent investigation of anything in Cuba. Dr. Biscet first got in trouble after he denounced what he felt was an inordinate amount of voluntary abortions in a Cuban Hospital."
ReplyDeleteAgain, thats just the usual anti castro propaganda, just read the cuban constitution and see by yourself. The Dr Biscet get in trouble for protest against abortion in several hospitals, he didn't followed any procedure at that respect and he just organized a publicitary stunt recorded in video of how the head of the hospital -a woman- smacked some sense into the idiot. Sorry, but that's not a good example, the guy is just a troblemaker attempting to make a point about abortion.
"One glaring example is the Ochoa case. The entire MININT was decimated from the Minister Abrahantes down to the lowest officer. Half of the Ochoa case involved MINFAR officers. Raul Castro was never disciplined for his responsibility as minister of the MINFAR."
The MINFAR is unrelated to the MININT, those are two separate bodies and if anything there is rivaltry between them. And the fact that the whole Ochoa scandal exploded is that someone at some level found it and denounced it.
Even the party makes a point in criticism and self-criticism, thats a known fact, but it is important how you denounce something. There is a BIG difference between contacting the local authorities about something and calling a press conference in the DINA, the same as to say "we have this problem, we have to do this and that to solve it" and "everything is screwd, lets call quits and elect a new government"
Anonymous 3:36PM
ReplyDeleteJust to be clear are you in favor of applying Cuban rules for political discourse in the US if they are so reasonable? (I don't want to imagine what those rabid Miami Cubans would do if empowered by Cuban government rules. OMG!)
I guess you also do not know of a single instance when someone criticize Fidel Castro or Raul Castro in Cuba. Just checking!
Vecino de NF
Nope, in Cuba there is too much centralization of the political discussion, I flavor diversity (but incidentally there is also little diversity in US politics). But from that to what previous poster claimed goes a long way.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, in Cuba is not unusual to see people complaining in public places and broad daylight about the government and even sprouting crap about their leaders, and the police rarely intervenes. (I've witnessed people loudly calling Fidel "viejo loco" (old madman) and worse. The people around usually just ignore the stuff.
The really troublesome part of the cuban politics is that Fidel surrounded himself with people who unconditionally agrees with whatever nonsense he does, so in the end Fidel was like the old king midas, everything around him suddenly turned gold and the ministries gives a distorted version of the reality just to keep their status.
The only time I remember someone criticized Fidel and he admitting his fault and retracting his statements was when he said crap about rockers and the ministry of culture Abel Prieto corrected him in a rather heartedly way.
Most of times the other people were wrong by definition and such were removed from his post (like the 10 millions tons zafra, or the lack of vitamins during the worst years of the special period causing blindness. In both instances the ministries were removed from their post, even when they were right).
The result of all that? A stupid bureaucracy when people sit idly to get orders "from above" and a whole stratus of hypocrites in middle management more communist than Marx and more fidelists than Fidel that more ofthen than not defect when have a chance and take with them the money of the people.
How the old folks say, "all extremes touch each other"
Anonymous 4:57PM,
ReplyDeleteSo to be clear, the dysfunctional state of affairs that you describe in Cuba is what the Miami Cubans are supposed not to criticize? They are supposed to accept it even if it hurts them because it's happening in their native land, and then they are supposed to support it financially either through remittances and aid to their families, or through taxes paid to the US that would in turn support trade with Cuba?
By the way thank you for the reference about Abel Prieto. Do you have the year and the occassion? (Just for future reference!)
Vecino de NF
Nope, it is flawed but not to the point of being dysfunctional yet. Besides Raul is a different beast, far more pragmatic than the brother and the good part is that he don't think that he is the ultimate authority in everything. He usually put in charge people that knows what they are doing and he demands results.
ReplyDeleteBesides, the miami cubans can criticize whatever they want, but they don't have a viable platform to solve the main Cuba issue (economy).
To make changes outside the system means to bring down all the social infrastructure, that raises lots of questions that no one can answer.
For instance, who will pay for the million or so of cuban past the retirement age? From where that money will come? What will happen with circa 80% of the active working population when their employer (the state) is no more? Who will fill the void of power? The anti-cuban guys of miami that have made everything in their hands to make their fellow cubans suffer? Imposing the blockade, creating incidents that may end in military confrontation with the US?
Sorry, there are too many questions and they can't give a good answer. The only way i foresee is to ask for a zillonary credit to "stabilize" things out, selling the future of cuba for many many generations... money that most likely will end in the hands of the corrupt and very little in the hands of the cuban people.
So, thanks, but no, thanks. What the miami fauna wants is not feasible and their projects (if any) are flimsy at most.
I do support change in cuba, but i think that the only possible peaceful change can come from inside the cuban government, other than that is wishful thinking.
"By the way thank you for the reference about Abel Prieto. Do you have the year and the occassion? (Just for future reference!)"
ReplyDeleteI don't remember exactly, it was several years ago, but I do remember that as an apology Fidel assisted to a rock concert afterwards.
Try a google search, it should not be that many. The cuban press didn't comment the incident at that time, just briefly covered his assitance to the concert.
Anonymous 5:46PM
ReplyDeleteThe Miami Cubans are key because they have money that they can use to invest in Cuba, and to aid other Cubans directly. That's the main reason the Cuban government is well advised to appease them en masse not individually as it has tasked Cuban intelligence over the years to do. (Trust me on this one, every truly rich Cuban American family has been approached directly or indirectly to support the Cuban Revolution sometimes without their knowledge to this day.)
As far as the Cuban demographics, you got an excellent point. Cuba has the oldest population in Latin America, and a very unproductive working population. Were there to be a big bang of capitalistic enterprise much of the population would move to more productive work. For example, right now it is illegal to be a middle man in the trade of agricultural goods. This creates huge inefficiencies because the middle man in trade facilitates it and provides for a very efficient allocation of resources. (Don't take my word for it, get Walmart's annual report and see how effective they are in both lowering consumer prices and distributing goods and services!) Once again someone's cousin in Miami can provide the start-up capital while his cousin in Cuba provides the labor. Both could make money, and they would depend on each other to make more. So I go back to why it is important to appease those rabid Miami Cubans. It's their money not their votes that Cuba wants.
But those Miami Cubans are not going to put their money in a country that insults them, and makes them feel threatened. Remember how much money they sent in when they went from gusanos to mariposas in the 1970s?
That leaves the significant portion of the population that can not provide for itself (13% elderly, another 20% children, a % disabled, etc). For those the Cubans both inside and outside would have to be appealed to show social solidarity. Without political vitriol that could be done. But for that both sides need to start like two stranged old amigos from Hialeah saying to each other "Sorry Bro!". Can they do that? Yes, they can to borrow an slogan but it takes two to tango.
In the end to paraphrase someone, Cubans of the World unite, you have nothing to lose but your pasts!
Vecino de NF
change and reform has to come from within, controlled by the cubans living in cuba. not imposed by those who think they know best, looking from the outside.
ReplyDeletelook at the Commission for Assistance to a Free cuba for insight into what the AMerican govt has in store for Cuba post castro -- including things that are already happening (vaccinations) and the dismantling of the social institutions in favor of neocon free markets. look what that did in the US.
those who want to destroy the regime instead of reform it are only interested in their own gain, political, social or economic. the energy now is to engage the govt as it is, and with the lifting of the siege foster political advancement through economic security. hope that it will work. just keep the gusanos at bay because they will stop at nothing (Brothers to Rescue) to derail any attempts at normalization.
all talk and criticism of internal government functions while under the continued American aggression is meaningless.
"In a besieged castle all dissent is treason" Ignatius Loyola
tell me one society throughout history that has reacted differently when facing real threats to national security -- this level of aggression, terrorism, economic embargo and plans for overthrown. Look at how American society was affected after 9/11. Cuba's protection of patria is wrapped in restrictions, yes repression. End that and then see what happens, but no one has the right to criticize without taking America's 50 years of strangulation of Cuba into account. what a criminal thing to do against such a small country.
Again, you missed the point. No matter how wealthy the cubans abroad are the cannot support a full reestructuration of the system without firing millions of people and worsening the situation for millions of cuban.
ReplyDeleteBesides, even if they had the means they won't put their money in something without return like stabilizing the country until the economy recovers to the point to be self sufficient.
What you claim will take years, and at that time someone has to pay for the survival of the millons of people without jobs OR just keep things like they are right now.
And sorry if I am blunt, but to show solidarity to a minimum 35% of the population is something that can't be done in the capitalist model.
The reason of the low levels of productivity in the socialist cuba is that they must keep the people employed and provide the minimum means of subsistence for all the population. In order to preserve social stability they cannot cut jobs massively, take a look of what they did with the sugar reestructuration... they put hundred of thousands of people to study, paying for that study the same as if they were working.
In the personal, I don't consider Ileana Ross and company cubans at all, and I dont want any of them having a voice in a post-castro cuba... with or without all the money they might have.
Anonymous 6:18PM,
ReplyDeleteCould you explain a phrase that I keep seeing over and over, "change and reform has to come from within, controlled by the cubans living in cuba..."? Do you mean that all Cubans living in Cuba should have a voice in change and reform or just those that are loyal to Fidel Castro and Raul Castro and therefore would defer to them on all major decisions?
Because if it is all Cubans living in Cuba, you will not get an argument from me but right now anyone in Cuba that does not agree with the current social and political order can not offer an alternative by law (see the Constitution).
Honestly puzzled Vecino de NF
Anonymous 6:30PM,
ReplyDeleteWe agree to disagree. I think that a reordering of the Cuban economy without dismantling the current safety net could be implemented in two to three years. The safety net would need to evolve, and it would require some foreign aid that could be secured through both multilateral and governmental organizations. The question is what do you do with those individuals with no apparent useful skills. I suspect that they would find employment in new sectors of the economy. Let me give you an example. There is no independent transportation sector in Cuba to move goods or people within Cuba in a massive and legal way. The government has proved to be unable to do so in a safe and predictable manner. A couple of guys with a truck or a guagua would provide a service that is not being met by the current economy. They can get the truck or the guagua from their cousin Cheo in Hialeah who all of a sudden just invested in a growth industry in Cuba. But Cheo wants some respect for his rabid ways and some assurances that his cousins are not going to cheat him out of his hard earned cash by some specious political argument. Could it be done? Sure. Can it be done? Sure. Does the Cuban government wants it done? You answer that one.
Vecino de NF
If real cubans living in Cuba wants change they will have change within the system. It has happened before and it will happen again, the people in power ain't that stupid to oppose the will of the masses.
ReplyDeleteThe hint of changes are in the air, the recent movement from Raul paves the way for china-like reforms, and anyways Cuba signed the remaining UN protocols of political and civil freedoms (that anyways they already implemented for the most part).
As for structural changes... I fear we must wait until the next party congress, somewhere late this year or early next one.
Anonymous 6:43PM,
ReplyDeleteWhat recent movements from Raul? All he has done is created the basis for a betting pool on who in the leadership will die first! I haven't seen some many old geezers in the leadership of a Communist country since the Brheznev's years. Remember: first Brheznev, then Andropov, then Chernenko, then Gorbachev, and then no more Soviet Union. There is no one under 70 in the Coucil of State. The Central Committee had to retire a couple of people because they had not moved for days since their last luncheon.
If we are to believe the NY Times, Lage, Perez Roque and Estenoz were removed because they were joking about Raul's and Machado Ventura's chocherías.
Sure I'll wait for the next Party congress but I would bet on a few state funerals before it happens. Although Ramiro Valdez looks fit. Does he use Twitter? After all he is the Minister of Telecommunications and Computers. Is he a Mac or a PC guy? Windows or Linux? Do you have his Facebook address?
Vecino de NF
Yes, we disagree. What you are saying is just wishful thinking, and I'm the first to wish things to be that way, but that won't work.
ReplyDeleteWhen you have a significant percent of the population unemployed or heavily subsidized, even the entrepreneur won't be able to get profitable revenues of the services they might bring.
And you are forgetting that the buses are public property in first place (in theory at least), so they first need to STEAL a bus and then do the rest. The same pattern will happens nationwide, there will not be working legal system and the law enforcers will be the first to use the possession of firearms to "secure" public property for themselves.
In that situation a domino effect will make to collapse quickly the rest of the economic infrastructure and with that the basic services. In a worst case scenario a civil war is quite possible, and right afterwards we will have an american intervention, which closes the one hundred years cycle and we can start again experimenting the banana republic once again.
Oops, I forgot, cubans didn't had a banana republic, they had the chambelona and the liberales del perico instead.
Yes, but in order to make any kind of reform you MUST surround yourself first with trustworthy people. And Fidel can claims whatever he wants, but the truth is that his followers are being replaced from government, and even his latest great project (the batalla de ideas) is buried down.
ReplyDeleteRamiro Valdez is an old fool that can't even type in a PC, and I bet he needs a secretary to read his email (if he indeed has email), but the point is, he is a trustworthy old fool, and thats the ONLY requirement for that particular post.
Anonymous 6:56PM,
ReplyDeleteOMG!
Who is being condescending now? So if the Cubans in Cuba can not govern themselves except under the guidance of the Castro brothers, should we set up the giant vats of Kool Aid a-la-Jonestown to be drunk after their demise? Or do we need a crash program on either cloning or spiritualism so we can keep them around forever?
Cubans in Cuba are people like everyone else in the world. You got to trust them to find their own solutions not treat them like children with special needs. By the way I thought that the bus or truck would come from Cheo in Miami. He got connections in Miami Dade.
It's late and I am signing off for now. I need to go back to my igloo before this global warming melts it. Talk to you later!
Vecino de NF
We were talking about reforms within the same government, and the current government is leaded by the younger castro.
ReplyDeleteIf you want a kick-out and restart everything solution, that won't be happening without an external influence.
If you want cubans in cuba to really change things, instead of earning money from their dissident activities they should postulate themselves and make a force within the cuban national assembly. But thats not profitable and requires a rock solid personal integrity, thats why you get instead a bunch of useless idiots doing nothing without a camera nearby and spreading gossip and nonsense in the name of whatever ideal they claim to belong.
OK Anonymous 7:16PM,
ReplyDeleteI had to look and see if someone replied to my last posting. Look if they are useless idiots let them be! Don't put them in jail, hound them with screaming mobs, insult them in the official media!
And by the way I don't think that you can just nominate yourself to any of the assemblies without having your nomination certified by a nominating board controlled by the Cuban Communist Party. That's how they end up with a single canditate for each seat. So the only electoral choice is vote or not vote.
Anyway talk to you soon. You sound awfully like Ricardo Alarcón. Is that you Ricardo? Remember the days of wine and roses in Manhattan? Just kidding! Hope he is OK after Mark Thiessen's chivatazo. He looks so kulturni in his guayabera.
Vecino de NF
"And by the way I don't think that you can just nominate yourself to any of the assemblies without having your nomination certified by a nominating board controlled by the Cuban Communist Party. That's how they end up with a single canditate for each seat. So the only electoral choice is vote or not vote."
ReplyDeleteNope, someone else has to nominate you as a delegate in the CDR. You don't need any kind of certification besides being fit to the post, and there are a few members of the national assembly that aren't members of the party.
The nomination to the provincial assembly is made from those delegates, and as far as I know is a fairly democratic filter.
The same goes for the national assembly, the provincial assembly picks the candidates and some other candidates are picked by some specific institutions.
Then the people choose between them (for the first stages) or ratifies them (for the national assembly).
And no, I'm not him. Ricardo Alarcon is just another useless puppet and in some respects he has lots of responsibility with the current situation of the country.