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Havana-Miami-Washington events and arguments and their impact on Cuba
Cuba blogs
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It takes all kinds
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2009
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June
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- Across the fenceline
- Applause for the coup
- Odds and ends
- Lage and Perez Roque: the Movie
- Odds and ends
- Quotable
- Bicitaxi
- The hole in the Bush strategy
- Odds and ends
- Iran Through Cuban Eyes
- Odds and ends
- The world's economic downturn, and Cuba's
- Welcome to the club, Barney
- Odds and ends
- On TV Marti
- Odds and ends
- Trinidad
- China sees silver lining in Cuban economy
- Odds and ends
- Odds and ends
- Cuba's spies and our interests
- New spy case
- The OAS, bringing people together
- Odds and ends
- Waiting for Mass to begin
- OAS and Cuba: What next?
- OAS resolution text
- Barack Herbert Walker Jefferson Obama (Updated)
- The OAS, still plugging away (Updated)
- Odds and ends
- Crunch time for the OAS
- Odds and ends
- Time to talk
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June
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56 comments:
...all just one big happy family.
Agents 123 and 202? Is this disinformation or does that mean that we have at least 200 other Cubant intelligence agents out there? Just when I thought that the biggest obstacle to normal relations were those pesky Cubans in Miami here comes a couple of North Dakotans allegedly working for Cuban intelligence!
Vecino de NF
the noose tightens Peters
the noose tightens Peters
Peters, a monkey wrench in Obama's rapprochement?
where are all the a-hole apologists to, er, apologize for the Castro regime?
Has anybody heard from Lefty and his wife lately? Hope they aren't "unavoidably detained" as "guests" of the FBI in the Washington D.C. lockup. If so, can we pass the hat to bail them out? I'm good for two Cuban pesos!
According to Myers: "Fidel has lifted the Cuban people out of the degrading and oppressive conditions which characterized pre-revolutionary Cuba," a purported excerpt from his diary reads. "He is certainly one of the great political leaders of our time."
Wow...just short of a "mighty penis rising" (Abbie Hoffman) but delusional nonetheless.
all the apologists are waiting for the talking points from Havana...
Keep your bags packed, Phil, and your money in a Canadian bank.
It will be interesting to see how differently these two are treated from the way the Isreali spys were or Harold Nicholson and son were etc.
Also, the statement by Joseph Persichini, Jr., "Intelligence services from around the globe continue to steal what information they can from the United States," is assinine.
ALL Intelligence services (including ours) steal what information they can from ALL governments!! That is their sole reason for existing !!
oh shut up 2:10.
Phil, it's time to close up shop -- maybe North Korea or Iran could use a blogger on softening up U.S. policy, although the grant money might be tougher to come by...
You guys have nothing better to do than trash peters?
If you're truly cuba experts you should not be surprised this stuff is going on.
better relations would lead to less spying no?
this guy and his wife are the type of people that you will always have when there's a powerful government trying to dominate a small revolutionary one. They're idiots probably but you know those people are out there and you know that the Cuban government gleefully covets them. If you guys are unaware that Cuban intelligence is involved in recruiting americans then you're not getting it.
Such hard hitting coverage from such an expert.
I'm impressed.
These two - and the network they supported in DC - should rot in jail; and if found the information they passed along resulted in dead Americans, the death penalty. The apologists for the regime will not say a word - even if the Castro brothers send talking points. Looking forward to seeing how the Castro Lobby in DC works out the next few weeks - they're all on the list as suspects ...
These two - and the network they supported in DC - should rot in jail; and if found the information they passed along resulted in dead Americans, the death penalty. The apologists for the regime will not say a word - even if the Castro brothers send talking points. Looking forward to seeing how the Castro Lobby in DC works out the next few weeks - they're all on the list as suspects ...
The only difference between what Phil Peters does and what the Myers did is that Peters accepts payment for his services, not just medals.
Ah yes, Phil's the professional and the Myers are the amateurs.
Phil is no traitor. He is faithful unto death to Staritt.
oh my god, stop the presses. cuba has spies in the united states. what a remarkable thing to have happen. my, my, now this proves without a doubt how specifically despicable the cuban government is, because surely no one else would ever try and spy on the USA. I mean, certainly not allies of the USA at least.
I mean really, you really have to take some stronger medicine. calm down, breath deep, its ok. Is this the best you got? weak, really weak.
the cuban govt is terrible, needs reform or even removal. there's a million things to criticize. but for you dinosaurs to try and make it out like the cubans are the only ones spying on the USA is just pathetic. and then the righteous indignation of anyone who tries to defend this. what's to defend? it's been reality for everyone for centuries.
or maybe you think the americans don't have spies. well, maybe not competent ones, but they do have them you know. and santa really doesn't exist.
so try and focus on something a little more substantial than two old people finally getting caught. or do you think cuba is now poised to take over the USA now?
kinda funny though in a pathetic kind of way to see all you types get so worked up. don't understand the venom against Phil, unless you can prove he was one of the handlers.
anyway, the americans will throw this two in jail for 256 years, torture them, ship them to GITMO and then deny everything. now that's good american justice.
let me help you understand, 10:29 and others.
1) this cuts against the "improving relations" narrative Phil and others are so arduously promoting. Remember? Cuba is no longer a threat, it's time to let by-gones be by-gones and begin anew? Well, when someone is recruited to steal the US's most sensitive secrets that kinda ruins the mood, don't ya think? And don't tell me we do it to them. We pretty much ended our operations when Cuba exposed all those agents several years ago.
2) what some of you sorry dolts can't seem to grasp is the United States conducts espionage to protect our freedoms and our way of life from our many enemies. The Castro regime conducts espionage to keep itself in power and its jackboot on the throats of the Cuban people. Understand the difference?
If there were more men like Phil Peters there would be no need for spies.
Reminds one of the jerk ROTC guy at the end of Animal House shouting, "All is WELLLL!!!"....
Philip Peters, a Cuba specialist and vice president of Lexington Institute, a public policy research center, said the arrests shouldn't stop Washington from pursuing diplomatic efforts with Havana.
"I think it's a fact of life, they have espionage against us and we do against them," he told FOXNews.com. But he added U.S. interests dictate renewing talks with Cuba.
"Just as we didn't stop negotiating arms control with the Soviet Union, our interests dictate we should engage with Cuba and that doesn't change because the spies were caught," he said.
OK, apologists, you now have your talking points from Havana...
HAVANA – Fidel Castro called the case of two Americans accused of spying for Cuba "strange" Saturday and questioned whether the timing of their arrests was politically motivated.
How many meetings has Phil had with Fidel?
The hypocritical spin on this from Lehtinen, Calzon and some folks here is amazing. They know darn well the US dedicates many more resources for spying and gathering intelligence against Cuba. They pretend like Cuba is the aggressor here. The US has superior technology so countries like Cuba have to rely on human goodwill. Cuba is recognized as being fortunate that many smart people are inspired by its history of resistance and want to help gratis. The Herald employs the right-wing phraseology of "true believer." Whatever you call it, Cuba's uniqueness in that regard is the only noteworthy fact here.
Trying to use this case to derail the fragile, modest overtures being made presently b/w the US and Cuba is highly irresponsible. The reason for talks is to get to a point where both countries don't need to have sizable intel operations against each other.
And of course, the security implications of this are being twisted and overblown by the rejectionists in Miami. Cuba does not aspire to topple the US Government. It's intel is generally defensive in nature. But we can still not say the opposite is not true.
Leftside,
I hope you had a good weekend. You might be interested in reading today's official note from the Cuban government announcing that they will never join the OAS. You might be specially interested in the final two paragraphs that quote the Second Declaration of Havana which state that the objective of the Cuban Revolution is to overthrow American imperialism by being in the vanguard of a Latinamerican Revolution.
I will reserve judgment on the Myers' case in the same manner that I do with Posada Carriles' pending judicial proceedings. If the allegations are true, it should be noted that Mr. Myers was apparently recruited by Cuban intelligence to infiltrate either the CIA or the State Department at a time that he was not working for the US government. It should also be noted that apparently he never worked on Cuba or areas related to Cuba, so we must conclude that Cuba used his intelligence product to trade in the international intelligence marketplace. Both of these indicate that this was not a defensive intelligence operation.
Lastly it should be pointed out that according to the Washington Post, Mr. Myers was identified after a long investigation that started a few years back. That can only mean that someone defected with enough information to raise suspicions about him and maybe others. This and other defections are indicative of the contradictions that are emerging in Cuban society and government.
Cuba is not a victim here but a protagonist in a struggle that its government chose to join. The most unfortunate outcome of this situation is that many will draw comparisons between Mr. Myers' alleged diary entries and the sentiments that you and others who sympathize with the Cuban Revolution state in this and other blogs. It would be unfortunate if that coincidence is used to justify accusations of treason and spying.
Vecino de NF
Vecino, I have seen no information that the Myers' produced intel not related to Cuba. The indictment only talks about 200 sensitive classified Cuba reports. There may have been more, but why wouldn't that at least be alluded to in the indictment?? Further, we don't have any proof, as far as I know, that Cuba has ever went around selling random intelligence to other nations as you suggest (despite what the idiot Simmons says).
Yes, of course Cuba is in the vanguard of fighting US Imperialism. But that is defensive by its very nature, as Cuba has been a top victim. Cuba has never made one aggressive act against US security. Not one. Against US Imperialism, yes. But there is an important difference.
As i understand it, the investigation against the Myers' began when someone in the US noticed that some piece of classified information had been comprimised. I have seen nothing about a supposed defection leading to this.
Idiots are going to make idiotic assumptions about me and others who find inspiration from Cuba. I'm glad you feel that is "unfortunate" but I've had to deal with a lot worse from gusanos.
Leftside,
We must continue to agree to disagree on your position that the Cuban government's actions are purely defensive. The current Cuban government felt from the beginning of its existence in 1959 that it should challenge and oppose US policy. It was an existential issue.
Mr. Myers was allegedly working on a non-Cuba, non-LA desk. He was in a position to pass on information about Cuba, but most likely he was also passing along other classified material. (What he passed on to Cuban intelligence is the question of the day in halls of Foggy Bottom and beyond. It is safe to assume that he passed on everything he had access to in the course of his duties). He allegedly was recruited as a penetration agent not as a disaffected one. If he did what has been alleged, he will probably die in prison because of his age. He and his wife will be two more casualties in this war between Cuba and US. They should be proud to die for their cause.
As far as "Cuba has never made one aggressive act against US security", espionage by definition is an aggressive act against any nation's security no matter who did what to whom first. War against imperialism is war, and in war all acts are offensive if you are in it to win. The alternative is to sue for peace at the first opportunity.
BTW according to excerpts from Mr. Myers' diary he also found inspiration from "Cuba" (Methinks that both you and he find inspiration from the Cuban Revolution not from a more encompassing Cuba that does include those who are so easily dismissed as "gusanos").
Vecino de NF
where's Phil? has he gone underground?
Ladies and gentlemen,
I assure you that Phil Peters is fine. There is no need to keep building his legend vis-a-vis the Cuban government. We should be thankful to him for gratiously opening this blog to all our comments. We should all assume that he has a day job like the rest of us.
Lest I forget, thank you Phil for your hospitality!
Vecino de NF
Lefside says: "Cuba has never made one aggressive act against US security. Not one."
Do you remember the Cuban Missile Crisis? In case you've never heard of it, check here for more info on that subject. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Missile_Crisis
what is more interesting, however, is not that there are Cuban spies in the hall of Foggy Bottom, on the Hill, in dozens of Federal agencies and even in the Old Executive Office Bldg. (as Scott Carmichael's book "True Believer" strongly suggests) but that these spies were taken down now. It seems from reading the indictment that the brunt of their most damaging work (and their high intelligence value) was already behind them. Why, then, would US counterintelligence agents pick them up if they were already identified and likely neutralized? Perhaps intelligence elements of the US government, who know full well CuIS' depth of penetration of the US government and the fact that Cuba traffics in US intelligence, are against the political branch's move to re-engage with Cuba when this might not be in the US' national security interest. Maybe?
The placement of missiles in Cuba was a direct response to actual, bloody US aggression (bay of pigs for one thing). Therefore, they were a defensive measure. The US had defensive missiles all over Europe, despite there having been no comparable Soviet aggression in Europe.
bay of pig invasion, plans for another using american troops, result was missile crisis. the aggression was american; but as usual the revisionists try and paint it the exact opposite.
some seem to think that cuba's attempt to establish, for the first time in its history, true cuban independence, achieved by cubans, was by definition wrong simply because of the identity of who they had to wrest control from.
not sure what else cuba could have done to make the clean break necessary to establish a true cuban sovereignty. radical, extreme, open to all criticism, but, especially as a result of American reaction, little other option.
el vino, de platano, y si sale agrio, es nuestro vino.
What is the difference between Phil Peters and Kendall Myers?
One got taught.
Message for Phil Peters: .-. . - ..- .-. -. - --- .... .- ...- .- .- --- -. -.-. . .-.-.-
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I heard Peters has sought asylum in the Venezuelan embassy in Washington.
Commenter @ 7:33:
OK, you take the prize.
Leftside said: "some seem to think that cuba's attempt to establish, for the first time in its history, true cuban independence, achieved by cubans, was by definition wrong simply because of the identity of who they had to wrest control from.
not sure what else cuba could have done to make the clean break necessary to establish a true cuban sovereignty. radical, extreme, open to all criticism, but, especially as a result of American reaction, little other option.
el vino, de platano, y si sale agrio, es nuestro vino."
and did the ruling regime ask the people whether they would be willing to pay the price for what has been allegedly achieved?
that wasn't leftside's comment but his fellow crackpot, who prattles on like a sociology graduate student still trying to graduate after ten years. He seems to think the Cuban people are as obsessed as he is with "identity," perceptions of "sovereignty," and the specter of the United States in Cuba's history, rather than making a decent living and building better futures for their children.
Peters MIA Day 4...
If we assume that any and all information that is seen by a penetration agent is passed to his/her control, one must wonder why has the Cuban government not been able to build a better relation with US government considering that they had access to all US defense plans and supporting intelligence (from Ana Belen Montes), and all US foreign policy plans and intelligence (if allegations against the Myers are correct)? Is it Cuba's fault or the US's fault? Are there basic irreconciliable differences that no matter what can not be resolved?
Vecino de NF
.-. . - ..- .-. -. - --- .... .- ...- .- .- --- -. -.-. . .-.-.-
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RETURN TO HAVE AT ONCE. FIDEL
VERY FUNNY! BUT IT IS CURIOUS THAT PP IS MIA FOR SO LONG.
Where is Phil?
But still it moves ...!
According to Mr. Vincent from El Pais Cuba used 40,000 more tons oil that was planned for the first four months of the year (That could amount to about $15 million at $50/barrel), and this was one of the reasons for the current austerity energy measures. If Cuba can not find US$15 million to pay for oil, it must be in a real financial bind.
(Not gloating just observing and deducing)
Vecino de NF
Vecino, there is litle doubt that Cuba is indeed in a real financial bind currently, but tell me a country that is not. The main difference is that Cuba can not utilize the standard tactics used by other countries to get through the crisis (the US is responsible for). They can't print money like the US and they can't borrow money like everyone else. The US makes sure of that. They also are not inclined to sell off their patrimony like most of Latin America did when they faced economic crises the last couple decades.
The idea, however, that Cuba's liquidity crisis is simply the result of higher than projected oil usage is quite wrong and insulting. The hurricane(s) damage ($10 Billion) is first on that list. Next goes the unprecedented drop in the price of nickel, followed by a 14% drop in tourist revenue (despite increased tourists). The oil issue was raised in the Cuban press because it is something that can reasonably be dealt with with vigilence.
Things in Cuba have not been this serious since the special period. Yesterday it was confirmed that significant "inevitable" economic reforms are in the works.
Nowadays many intense discussions are being conducted in the ruling system" to make modifications in the productive sector, said an article published Monday by the official daily Granma.
...
(Granma's) Barredo said that one of the most important issues in current situation is "to face the mentality of expenditure that many companies have in the country and most of the time they do not ask how much things cost."
Barredo also said that Cuba has adopted measures to avoid the deterioration of fundamental social programs, such as education and health, to keep the employment rate and to guarantee each citizen has equal calories, proteins and fats.
"They also are not inclined to sell off their patrimony like most of Latin America did when they faced economic crises the last couple decades."
Leftside,
It's not clear what you have been smoking but that statement is nothing but wrong. The Cuban government has sold significant stakes in the tobacco industry to Altadis (France/Spain), the telephone company to a Mexican company who then sold it to STET (Italy), the nickel mines to Sherritt (Canada), oil refining to PDVSA (Venezuela), etc, etc. Most of the personal property of individuals who left Cuba was, is, and will be sold to foreigners as quaint souvenirs. Cuban works of art are routinely sold in the international art market with some pieces coming directly from Cuban museums. The Cuban labor is routinely leased out to every country in the world under arrangements that treat Cuban professionals like serfs at best, and slaves at worst since they have no control over the terms and conditions for their labor. And in closing, Cuba ran for nearly 50 years CUBALSE (Cuba al Servicio del Extranjero = Cuba at the Service of the Foreigner), a company designed to provide non-Cubans with every amenity and service that is denied to all but a few Cubans. That is selling selling the nation's patrimony if nothing else.
Maybe that's the price of having a governing elite being the vanguard of the proletariat, and leading the fight against imperialism but please don't wet our legs and tell us it's raining!
Vecino de NF
What a shame Leftsdie was not visiting in Chile in September of 1973. We could have used his insights and great wisdom and then deal with him accordingly like the Chileans did with many others of his kind.
Anonymous 12:03PM,
You are way out of line! What Pinochet and his minions did in Chile was a FAILURE in the fight against communism. Whenever we abandon rule of law and due process WE ARE ALL IN DANGER because today maybe it's he or she but tomorrow could be you or I. Pinochet and his minions took their sweet time in returning Chile to democratic rule and in that sense they were worse than Allende and as bad as Castro.
Sorry Leftside, this guy does not speak for me and I want to be clear that I do not condone his statements!
Vecino de NF
Vecino, if you think Cuba has sold out its patrimony (at least compared to anyone else it Latin America), it is you that is smoking something pretty good. There is a difference between being open to strategic investments and selling out one's cultural heritage and national wealth. The Cuban people retain control (majority stakes) over their land, their tobacco, their nickel, their telecommunications, their oil refining, pretty much everything. Foreign ventures are chosen pretty selectively.
And what the heck are you talking about in terms of Cuba selling off the posessions of those who left as souveneirs?? Never heard of such a thing.
When artwork is sold, Cuba is probably one of the few places that retains a share of the profits to develop other artists. To remove artwork from the country, you need permission from the Diretor of Patrimony at the Ministry of Culture.
Exactly what patrimony did CUBALSE sell out to foreigners?
BTW, in regards to the PDVSA-Cupet joint oil refinery ventury in Cienfuegos, the impressive results are already in for the Cuban people.
Oil exports are now Cuba's second leading export, overtaking pharmaceuticals, and produced $880 million in revenues in 2008, according to a Foreign Trade Ministry report.
...
"Based on published data, the revenues seem to represent Cubapetroleo's equity share of the Cienfuegos Cupet-PDVSA joint venture refinery exports," said Jorge Pinon, former president of Amoco Oil Latinoamerica and researcher at the University of Miami's Center for Hemispheric Policy.
Leftside,
Is a good capitalist one that does business with the Cuban government or are all capitalist bad by definition?
Vecino de NF
Capitalists are many times fine people. They are doing what capitalism expects them to do - put profit above all else. My problem is with the capitalist system, particularly when it subjects basic human needs like health, food and housing to the laws of the jungle (market).
In socialism there is usually many sectors where free markets would work just fine. In other sectors, the State works in partnership with capitalists, while in basic or strategic sectors, there is simply no room for anything other than public control. No country has those relationships perfectly figured out. I expect some changes in this equation soon to be unveiled in Cuba.
Leftside is here as a diversionary tactic meant to defray the heat from Peters. It won't work.
The question still remains: What are Phil's real ties to the Castro regime and do they rise to the level of treason?
That question may soon be answered when the Myers, whom Peters knows personally, spill their guts, as spill their guts they will.
Phil is currently in Canada awaiting developments. This is truly his "dark night of the soul."
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