Wednesday, March 25, 2009

Nuevo Vedado

19 comments:

cabron said...

must be the home of a Politburo member or a foreign businessman...

Anonymous said...

Yes, but have you ever seen nice homes in DR or Haiti or Jamicia or even Puerto rico to some extent and ask who lives in them?

It would be the same response.

Anonymous said...

yes, dope, but they don't profess to be "egalitarian societies" that outsiders like you ejaculate all over....

leftside said...

Cuba is the only place in Latin America where everyday workers and poor people are able to live in the nicest housing around.

Anonymous said...

I think leftside just spouts this stuff to set people off...no sane human being can possibly really believe this stuff.

Anonymous said...

That's because most of the homes were stolen by an illegal regime, leftside. Do you understand the art of logic or is it as anon 7:31 states - you just enjoy riling people up.

Let's attempt to find out who you are, that we might show up at your home, tie you up, carry you away and decide who we're going to give your domicile to.

Ignorance on these blogs is sometimes just absolutely astounding.

Oh, let me disarm the propaganda you're sure to reply with at once:

No, I'm not advocating people to go back to Cuba to boot out innocent people who were moved into these homes by the dictatorship. They are but innocent pawns in all of this.

-Gerardo

leftside said...

no sane human being can possibly really believe this stuff.

Gerardo’s response just acknowledged that I was right. In fact, no one that knows Cuba or socialist housing markets would find what I said controversial. Market economists consider the fact that everyday working people are able to live in the nicest neighborhoods a fatal defect of socialism. It does not send the “right market signals” about the price of land.

What Gerardo gets wrong, of course, is the idea that housing was “stolen” by the State. Anyone who had a house they lived in plus a vacation house could keep them, period. Folks that had multiple houses beyond this were fully compensated. Only those who were determined to have profited off slum tenement housing were denied compensation. Most large houses that are today used as other uses or multiple-family housing were simply abandoned by their previous owners when they left. The units were then distributed by need. These are the houses you call stolen, but in fact they were forfeited. The reason the diversity of Cuba’s cities has remained to this day is the lack of real estate speculation, mandated by the Revolution. Today, 85% of Cubans own their own home outright.

Anonymous said...

uh oh, I think he really believes this stuff...

Anonymous said...

Leftside:

You are completely, 100 percent, incredibly incorrect.

As an example - my family's home received a knock on the door by milicianos. We were forced to hand over the keys and vacate. NO COMPENSATION, nothing. We had committed no crimes or supported any anti-revolutionary activity. The home was stolen by the state simply because it was large.

You haven't the foggiest idea what you're talking about. You just pointed out at least half a dozen erroneous facts.

Sigh. Some people believe that if they shout loudly, for a long enough period of time, that there agenda will become truth/reality.

"Crazy" wouldn't even begin to describe it. LOL

Anonymous said...

anon 1257... nice story, but doesnt' matter...leftside is more informed and better educated that you , particularly for cuban issues.

you probably don't even speak spanish and haven't been to cuba.. .go to cuba, to see how half of what you beleive (any 1257) is complete fantasy neo-con garbage

and by the way, I am often very critical of cuba, but its just that you no-nothing crowd are even worse.. You probably are a Glenn beck fan too. Loser.

Anonymous said...

Oye 1:31, pero tu eres bobo o que?

Naci un Cuba. Soy ciudadano cubano. Lo vivi demasiado anos y doy mis gracias cada dia de mi vida, que pude salir de ese infierno. Leftside le gusta hablar una cantidad de boberias sobre nuestro pais simplemente porque no le gusta la Yuma. No importa ni pinga, nada de la Yuma. Lo que me importa es mi Cubita, mas nada.

Y que es esto de "neo-con?" Es decir que soy republicano o algo asi? Que tu sabes de lo que yo pienso de partidos politicos? No soy Republicano, nunca he sido Republicano. Por que tu crees eso, asere?

Tu me quieres decir que UN CUBANO no entiende su propia historiay vida? Oye, pero tu si eres un bobo. Completamente loco - pero COMPLETAMENTE

Ni se si debo reir de ti o lamentar por ti.

Gerardo

Anonymous said...

well put Gerardo

leftside said...

12:57, if I am incorrect about the relevant housing laws in Cuba, please do fill me in. But I am going to need more details before I believe the story about your home being taken by the State simply because it was too big. There was simply no such provision.

Anonymous said...

Re story of house being taken; anecdote incidents are so easy to support one point of view without proof. and when challenged its so easy to feign indignation, because it is so hard to prove.
every anti-castro cuban i've ever met while claiming examples of houses being taken over once abandoned, have never said they were taken over because of their size. Particularly if not involved in anti-government activities. so it's really hard to call his house too large story a lie. almost.

Anonymous said...

gerardo; that's very impressive, writing in spanish. you must be cuban for sure.
and you know when your rantings will have a positive affect in cuba?
en el ano que nieve en cuba

Anonymous said...

Even Phil's photos spark debate...

I think a fair person would have to say the Batista government was an illegal regime, too, no?

Cuba is not perfectly egalitarian and has grown more unequal through the "Special Period," but it is far more equal than any other country in Latin America as a glance at GINI coefficients or 90/10 wage ratios makes clear.

I've been in Havana for a little over two months. Obviously the people I talk to are not a random sample of the population and two months is not that long. People mention housing as being a problem and having too many people crowded together (Cuba is obviously not unique in having this problem). Which is to say my experience doesn't support Leftside's characterization.

Also, I understood it as the government owns your home and you own the right to it and pass it on to your family--call it hair splitting if you will but it strikes me as a difference.

Saludos de Vedado.

leftside said...

Saludos, housing crowding is a serious problem, as the Government has long acknowledged. They were making progress on the housing construction front, only to have the hurricane divert materials and resources this past year. But I don't see how that quite relates to the the point of social-spatial integration I was talking about.

And no, the Government does not "own" most people's homes (at least since 1987). That applied to many who rented from a state employer (military, teachers, etc.). But last April, another reform clarified that everyone can gain title to their home once they've paid in enough, even if they change jobs.

Anonymous said...

there is definite housing shortages in cuba, but the government is trying to address that as best they can with limited resources; as opposed to the perspective of many other third world countries.
the cuban govt did change the rules recently as per the reform gaining title. but that affected a portion of the population, before that cubans did own their homes, under the rules and regs of the govt. i know many micro-brigades who built their own apt buildings and took possession of their own apt. and my in laws have legal title to their home, have had it for 40 years. the laws are different under cuban socialism, but they've paid off their mortgage and they have possession.

Anonymous said...

Cuba is the only place in Latin America where everyday workers and poor people are able to live in the nicest housing around.

Leftside,

It's likely true that there's greater class integration and equality of access to housing than other Latin American countries, but the "nicest housing around" strikes me as an exaggeration.

You're correct that the housing shortage was a tangential point.

Anon 828