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Odds and ends
- Governor Richardson clarifies his position on travel to Cuba: “Let anybody go to Cuba.” He spoke at the University of New Mexico about his effort to mediate a change in U.S.-Cuba relations. He engaged in some Cuba diplomacy in the 1990’s while serving in the House of Representatives; two accounts of that history are here and here.
- From a Herald article today: “Another exile group, Mambisa Watch [Vigilia Mambisa], announced that on Sunday evening it will use a steamroller in Little Havana to destroy CDs of artists who take part in the Juanes concert.”
34 comments:
Here's the divide -- Richardson says let everyone go to cuba. sounds reasonable.
steamroller to destroy CDS of those who participate in concert -- more of the same batshit crazy.
any sane, normal person would look at these two examples and make their own assumptions. and yet those who oppose the first and defend the second try and maintain the veneer of rationality. fortunately it will all end soon
"fortunately it will all end soon"
Agreed...Fidel and Raul Castro can't live forever.
chingon
Wonder who is funding Vigilia Mambisa? Could they be part of a Cuban intelligence operation run by the same people who brought us the infiltration of Alpha 66, and Brothers to the Rescue?
Vecino de NF
hey, great theory. create a whacko organization to discredit the ENTIRE exile community! you are right. it's been done before! maybe it's happening all over again!
Marielito,
Many of the more virulent comments on both sides of the aisle (sort of speak) may also be part of such an operation. The louder and more vituperative the comment gets, the more suspect the commentator.
Vecino de NF
I bet if someone one told Miguel Saavedra (head of Vigilia Mambisa) that his organization is a Cuban intel outfit he would punch you in the mouth. I say this because this is a guy who viciously attacked a student holding up a sign saying "Terrorists to Jail," at his pro-Luis Posada Carriles protest 2 years ago.
hey, if one is going to play the part, one has to do it well! plus, those guys from MININT can throw punches, shove, kick, use a night stick, and worse!
Leftside,
Mr. Saavedra may not be a willing Cuban intelligence operative but he may be an unwitting agent. The political desperation that many exiles feel about being left out of the political life of Cuba is real and it can be manipulated. Having said that it would not be surprising that some of the people participating in these protests against the Juanes concert and similar events are Cuban intelligence officers and agents. After all the Red Avispa was involved in just these kind of activities as part of their intelligence tasks.
For my part, I am planning to listen to my very own Concert for Peace this weekend ... Britten's War Requiem!
Vecino de NF
So Bill Richardson believes everyone should be able to travel to Cuba.
But does he believe that Cubans should be able to leave Cuba? And, even more importantly, does he believe Cubans have a right to travel within their own country without first obtaining an Apartheid-style internal passport?
Inquiring minds want to know.
"does he believe Cubans have a right to travel within their own country without first obtaining an Apartheid-style internal passport?"
Hmmm.. this is new. What do you mean by internal passport?
marielito
create a wacko organization to bring disrepute to the exile community. ROFLMAO -- that's CANF and all the others, man that was classic, very funny. these clowns need no one to infiltrate them to make them look like fools, they do it so well on their own.
it's like -- lets infiltrate the KKK to make them out as racists.
too much, but i guess it's not paranoia if you see them behind you
Hello AC:
Re internal passports: without special permission, Cubans are banned from leaving their home province to visit major cities, except for brief visits (1 or 2 days?). If they are caught in Havana after this strict time limit, they are deported back home.
Many Cubans from Oriente (termed "Palestinians" by Havanans) live illegally in Havana, without the libreta or the right to send their kids to school, because of the desperate conditions in their home provinces. There are periodic crackdowns to arrest and deport them.
The I.D. papers of Cubans, known as the "carnet," are color-coded by province so the police will instantly know the "legal" address of each person they question, making deportation easier for them.
I wonder if Richardson is aware of this injustice, reminiscent of Apartheid South Africa and the former Soviet Union? By the way, it is said that Russia, even today, retains the Soviet internal passport system. Can anyone confirm this?
anon
that might be the law, i'd have to confirm, but it isn't reality. i know many cubans who visit relatives, etc for weeks on end with no permission, and no punishment. if the law still exists it should be ended, but the reality is not what you make it out to be
I am Irish and had to put up with the South and North of Ireland conflict butthe Cuban quagmire makes us look like fairies. Gang, WTF! I mean
Obama has tried to entice the present
regime to give a little and they're
total ass-hcces! Those who left Cuba and are adamantly opposed to any type of interaction, including
a fuXgt0g concert are looking like
total idiots! Do you know who took
down the Berlin Wall? It was the
Rolling Stones! One more thing,
I will not tolerate one American
soldier fight for or against this
insanity! It stops there!
Panofilo is free. 3 weeks of alcoholism rehabilitation instead. Very good decision by the authorities.
"Re internal passports: without special permission, Cubans are banned from leaving their home province to visit major cities, except for brief visits (1 or 2 days?). If they are caught in Havana after this strict time limit, they are deported back home."
Nope, they are banned to reside permanently in certain places with overpopulation problems without comply with certain specs (their new home need to have certain habitable space per capita).
"The I.D. papers of Cubans, known as the "carnet," are color-coded by province so the police will instantly know the "legal" address of each person they question, making deportation easier for them."
I saw quite a few carnets in several provinces and I should be color blind because all looked the same. In any case give me a couple of days and I will confirm if thats true or not.
"they are banned to reside permanently in certain places with overpopulation problems without comply with certain specs..."
The internal passport systems of Apartheid South Africa and the Soviet Union make just as much sense as the Cuban pretext for population control. How silly of me to have thought that the Cuban laws had anything to do with totalitarianism!
" i know many cubans who visit relatives, etc for weeks on end with no permission, and no punishment...."
What a pity the police can't catch them all! And if these laws are not enforced, then what happens when palestinos try to get a legal job in Havana, to buy food with the libreta or to enroll their kids in school there?
And all the articles in the papers about periodic roundups and expulstions of palestinos must be another manifestation of "media terrorism," the most insidious aspect of the Imperialist plot against the First Free Territory of the Americas.
On Planet Leftside, a Cuban is free when they have been sent to a psychiatric ward.
So there are no Apartheid-style "pass laws" in Cuba? Check this out in today's CubaNet:
Deportan a su provincia a ex oficial de la PNR
LA HABANA, Cuba, 18 de septiembre (Álvaro Yero / www.cubanet.org ) - Un ex oficial de la Policía Nacional Revolucionaria fue deportado a su provincia natal, Guantánamo, por residir ilegalmente en Ciudad de La Habana.
El ex agente Raúl Castro González, declaró que fue detenido en la vía pública y conducido a la estación de la policía ubicada en Zapata y C, donde le informaron que debido a su condición de ilegal (por residir en una provincia que no es la suya) sería trasladado en tren hacia su lugar de nacimiento.
Aunque no fue sancionado, lo obligaron a firmar una carta de advertencia que le prohíbe regresar a la capital, a no ser que cambie su dirección o realice un tránsito temporal. En caso de violar esta disposición podría ir a parar a la cárcel.
Raúl Castro González fue expulsado de la policía en el año 2008 acusado de salida ilegal del país.
there is no such thing as a color coded ration card. another lie.
residing illegally in Havana is a crime. a terrible indictment against the regime and proof of....whatever.
come on, you can do better than that.
clean up your own house before shitting in someone else's
there are a million things wrong and can be corrected in cuba.
there are a million things wrong and can be corrected in any society -- or are you robots happy with the health care debate and wall street back in business as usual?
but no, it's easier to pick on cuba, a small country where the gusanos have captured the complete right to claim unequaled misery and horror. and if anyone objects it's a damn communist epitaph. there's no hope of change for these losers, so just pass them by.
until they they are just fighting their own personal windmills. and just as sad.
Anonymous September 17, 2009 9:24 PM,
If you are Irish, why do you care about either Cuban politics, Cuba-USA relations, and the survival of American soldiers? Just curious.
Vecino de NF
On planet anonomous, getting a terrible drunk help for their disease (for free) is called a deprivation of liberty. Meanwhile, thousands of drug addicts and drunks are given the same sentence every day in the US.
Leftside,
Well getting someone into rehab against their will is by definition deprivation of liberty and some might argue a way to prevent them from pursuing happiness, isn't it? Let's not forget why did Panfilo was sent to jail in the first place: pre-delictive conduct, and vagrancy. In other words he was guilty of not doing anything just being a potential criminal and a bum. Those laws are still in Cuba's criminal code, and therefore they could be applied anytime.
And anyway aren't all succesful rehab programs based on the idea that the addict realizes that he needs help quiting, and don't forced rehab programs usually end in failure? Without knowing where Panfilo was and is we have no idea on his living conditions. Doubt we'll ever find out. He might be released in three or four weeks and then run over by a truck. Terrible situation for any human being anywhere!
Vecino de NF
We have no indication that Panfilo was "forced" into anything. He obviously needs help. I have little doubt that this option was his preferred choice.
On Planet Leftside, anyone who criticizes conditions in Cuba "needs help."
Leftside,
Panfilo was probably given the choice between statying in jail and going into a mental health facility. (For some reason "One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest" comes to mind.) If that was the case, he did not make a free choice. He chose what he thought was a probably better alternative.
It is interesting that apparently he read a statement over the phone to Elizardo Sanchez. Gotta wonder about Panfilo's circumstances at the time!
Vecino de NF
Vigilia Mambisa are good for s***s and giggles. They are a living breathing satire of how the outside world percieves conservative Cubans are even though the group is no more than one idiot and revolving supporting cast of clowns.
I should note that when they steamrolled Juanes' CDs none of them actually seemed to own one so the took a bunch of blank CDs that had the name "Juanes" hand printed on it.
Cardinal,
Why do you think that the "outside world" continues to perceive conservative Cubans as the cartoonish Vigilia Mambisa members?
Vecino de NF
"Why do you think that the "outside world" continues to perceive conservative Cubans as the cartoonish Vigilia Mambisa members?"
Because of vigilia mambisa and such? It doesn't matter if they are a small minority, they are a small minority that stands out.
Is pretty much the same with the perceived link between Muslims and terrorism, only a small minority of them are nutters, yet society tends to put them on the same basket.
got a good point AC...
pOpEyE
On Planet AC, the link between Muslims and terrorism is only "perceived."
"On Planet AC, the link between Muslims and terrorism is only "perceived."
On planet anonymous stupidity is a virtue. Cuban-americans have the same kind of link with terrorism, how would you feel if I start calling all of you "a bunch of blood thirsty terrorists"?
Still, full marks for not understanding the point.
but the gusanos don't think there has been any terrorism against cuba, they think posada and bosch and the band of criminals are simply misunderstood freedom fighters. tell that to the families who lost love ones on cubana airlines.
the extremists in all politics or religions have the loudest voice and carry with it the perception of a standard. the cuban-american terrorists are a small minority, but there is a perception of acceptance of their acts within a large segment of the community. and it is just another hypocrisy of american policies that does not go unnoticed.
could you imagine the outcry if Osama was living freely and openly in Pakistan?
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