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Friday, October 2, 2009
Odds and ends
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Havana-Miami-Washington events and arguments and their impact on Cuba
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2009
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October
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- The UN vote
- Odds and ends
- Vigilia Mambisa rides again
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- Price controls at agros?
- When less would have been more
- It's Obama's embargo now (Updated)
- "Safe house" torture
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- Obama's message, via Madrid
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- Get to work, and I don't like your attitude
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- Governor Richardson speaks
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- Miami changes its mind
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October
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23 comments:
I hope we are not supposed to feel sorry for "Joaquin" who stole from his workplace and the Cuban people in order live large? He is a poster child for everything wrong with Cuban socialism.
BTW, the Cuban Five trial is heating up again. A Judge considering the (absurdly long) sentances they were given ordered the US to try to dig up any possible "damage assessments" that support the Government's contention that they Five posed a "grave security risk." The Government had been argued (in apparent contradiction) that no such documents exist but that searching for them might expose sensitive information. The appeals judges said there was insufficient evidence that the Five had obtained or transmitted top secret U.S. information to justify their sentences.
Now the original Judge on the case (Joan Lenard) has sided with the Government appeal and halted the order to search for documents. She gave no reason for her actions. This same Judge will be resentencing 3/5 very soon, after their original charges were vacated.
This just goes to show again what a farce this case is. How the original sentences were unjust and how the Cubans are correct in making such a stink.
It sounds like the government is taking a dive on the WASP network resentencing. Very likely some of the Five will be home to celebrate the 51st anniversary of the Cuban Revolution.
Any confirmation that the South Florida DA office has been heard saying "I could have been a contender, Charlie ..."?
Vecino de NF
On Planet Leftside, espionage against the US is just a "stink."
Jeez, what's the matter with those soreheads in Miami? Haven't they ever heard of "recreational espionage?"
In contrast, just think how five CIA agents would be greeted in Havana after they spied on the Cuban Air Force and helped to shoot down two Cuban airplanes, killing several Cuban citizens.
Leftside, don't ever let those imperialistas discourage you from exercising your right to speak out on the side of reason and justice!
Leftside, you are worse than Doctor Moreau. Isn't it such a difficult task to control the people under a communist regime, to reform and redefine that blasted human nature--that survival in them? That's the pedigree: Innoculate them with nurture and kill the nature. It sure is a damn shame when the revert to the animal they truly are, the animal they have always been. Oh, Leftside, you and Fidel and Stalin and Lenin all wish to play God. You do not believe in God, but it is God who you will meet. First you meet me, then you meet God.
tu madre - you are imperialist neo-con.
Go to cuba if you want change, but don't use our USA governmetn (of all americans) as tool for your domestic fantasy. Go back to cuba and change from inside. If not, shut the Fk UP.
"Our" government? You can barely write in English.
the cuban five were there to infiltrate counter revolutionary terrorist organizations, there has never been any evidence that showed they compromised national security. anyone with any evidence please show it. even the prosecution admitted that, and now the new movement confirms that. the cuban five are political prisoners, while terrorist bosch and posada walk free.
long live american justice. what a fine example to the world.
Bosch and Posada combat against communism.
The Cuban Five combat against anti-communism.
The United States is an anti-communist democratic republic. Such fates for the two sects are easily discerned.
Bosch and Posada were responsible for the deaths of innocent children; if you want to justify that in a political context then you are the lowest type of gusano.
The Cuban Five were combating against terrorism, if you want to conflate terrorism with anti-communism then go right ahead.
Even George Bush said there is no such thing as a good terrorist, that NO political cause can justify terrorism.
So cut the crap and get a real argument.
Anyone who defends those two criminal terrorists would also defend Osama Bin Laden -- because you try and bring justification to something that is indefensible.
Who's in prison and who's not?
"The Cuban Five were combating against terrorism"
Keep on speaking truth to power, Anon! The world needs more people like you, fearless in defending the plain truth.
Now if we could just persuade all those misguided yanquis that the Brothers to the Rescue pilots were murdered for their *own* good, and that infiltrating the U.S. Air Force was done for pristine humanitarian motives, we could begin planning the Broadway tickertape parade for the Five Heroes instead of serving them more meals of bean and franks in the clink.
And if they are tired of beans and franks, maybe the Five Heroes could show some heart by mailing some of their uneaten meals to the toiling masses back home (not that they need extra food, of course, now that Raul if "perfeccionando" whatever minor problemitas may have existed in the food sector.)
well anon 842, it's about time someone talked truth to you gusanos, take a look outside and see what color of the sky it is in your world.
can you explain the infiltrating the US Air Force comment, please give details.
and please provide proof of the connect with the Five to the Brothers to Rescue shoot down. (and maybe explain why the American govt didn't stop the illegal flights until after the incident -- take a guess how many illegal flights would have been allowed over Washington by terrorist groups before something would have been done)
You are absolutely right, there are food shortages in Cuba and people go hungry. Thank god there's no problem with hunger in the United States. or anywhere else in the world, just in Cuba.
But keep up those clever comments, (are they suppose to be sarcastic?)
Really, ask CANF for some better scripts.
If you have to ask for "details" of what the spies did then you are a bigger moron than everyone thinks you are. Here's a hint, bobo: it all came out in their trial -- the Naval Air Station in Key West, U.S. Southern Command, and their role in the BTTR shootdown. The fact that you can sit there and so freely defend the Cuban spies without even being aware of what they did does more to prove your utter ignorance and lack of credibility than anything anyone else could write here.
chingon
Chingon, perhaps you missed what is going on in the Courts. The Judge is demanding that the US Government provide one piece of evidence that the 5 comprimised US national security in any way. The US has responded that this does not exist. Get it? There is NO proof the 5 did anything but report publicly available information. And it was a Naval Station, not Air Force.
And there is no proof the 5 had anything to do with the shootdown. The only evidence the Court heard was that the 2 Brothers to the Rescue infiltrators were supposed to let Cuba know the days they were flying. It is like American Homeland Security officials being charged for murder because they informed the US Air Force that they would be present in a particular community doing "outreach" or some other mission that day.
Only on Planet Leftside are agents of a hostile foreign power gathering information in the US perfectly acceptable. And terrorists monitoring US airports and other critical infrastructure are guilty of what, leftcrank, sightseeing?
That's not even the point. The point is your fellow crank was apologizing for the spies without even knowing what they were guilty of!
chingon
Leftside,
What would be the penalty in Cuba for a US intelligence officer who resided under false pretenses in Cuba, and who filed intelligence reports with the US government? Would it matter if the intelligence reported was worthless?
Having said that, some of the Wasp network officers are probably going to be in Cuba shortly if the sentencing judge decides to reduce their sentences. They probably have served more time than the Wasp network' agents who pleaded guilty to the US governemt charges. So the lesson has been taught.
Normally this situation should have been resolved by an exchange of arrested spies at the GITMO wire. The problem is that there are no CIA agents in Cuba that the US government wants to get out of Cuba. Hey I got an idea, let's exchange the Fives for Fidel! He bankrupted the Soviet Union almost single handed! He deserves a Presidential Medal of Freedom just for that!
Vecino de NF
pidgen, there is going to be a website dedicated just in honor of your stupidity.
the five were NOT found guilty of spying; they were found guilty of conspiracy - - there never was and never has been any proof provided by the prosecution of ANY compromise to US national security. and the latest judge ruling again confirms that. conspiracy to commit is just such a chickenshit charge; anyone could be charged with that; although conspiracy to commit intelligent thought would be a charge no-one would contemplate to lay against pidgen.
the BTTR flights were common knowledge in Miami, it was no secret what those terrorists were doing.
again, for once, please, for once pidgen, get your frigging facts straight. but then you gusanos that defend real terrorists bosch and posada are really beyond hope, which makes it so much easier to just ignore them.
vecino, good point re turning it to the other side, the US agent would be put in jail. But would he get a life sentence? based on previous experience, probably not. but i understand what you're trying to get at, but it's not really apples to apples
evidence does matter; there has never been any evidence brought forward to show the Five compromised national security. there is extensive evidence they were there to infiltrate terrorist organizations; is there evidence you have that Cubans from Cuban have committed any terrorist acts against American targets in America?
the Five deserved jail time under american law; they don't deserve the sentence they got. and the trial should not have been held in Miami; that's the political aspects that put American justice in such a bad light.
Assume if you agree the Five should be jailed under American law then you agree with what the 75 got under Cuban law.
Anonymous October 6, 2009 10:00 AM,
"Assume if you agree the Five should be jailed under American law then you agree with what the 75 got under Cuban law."
No, I don't. As far as anyone can tell the 75 had a summary trial with limited defense capabilities, and no appeals. The laws that were used to prosecute them are designed to attack dissent not espionage. The Cuban judiciary is not independent of the political process and as such any judicial process in Cuba is vitiated. Hiring a lawyer in Cuba to defend yourself from a government accusation is a waste of time and money.
" is there evidence you have that Cubans from Cuban have committed any terrorist acts against American targets in America?"
Cuba has sponsored terrorist organizations in the USA by providing training, refuge, and resources to them in Cuba, and third countries. Jorge Masetti in his book "In the Pirate's Den: My Life as a Secret Agent for Castro" details the support he gave to Puertorican separatists in their armored car heist in Hartford, CT. But I have gone over this in past comments.
There are two things that are interesting. The first is that the judicial resolution of the Wasp network proceedings is about to end, and the Cuban government side appears unable to live with that. The second is that in all the discussions about the Fives nobody on the Cuban government side ever mentions all the other Wasp network agents who pleaded guilty to their charges.
Vecino de NF
the judicial in miami was not independent, all requests to move the trial was denied, all for political purposes. the trial was a joke. this was a political trial. and talk about wasting time and money, then talk about the justice system in the USA
Can you tell me of direct experience you have with the court system in Cuba?
those who plead quilty did it for a plea bargain, they testified against the others and received benefits for it.
what evidence is there that CUBANS from CUBA committed terrorist acts in the USA? Sorry I didn't make the question clear enough. Are you comparing the terrorist acts against Cuba by American and American citizens to your example above?
but please provide evidence the FIVE committed espionage against USA -- if you have proof the prosecution would be interested in hearing from you. they were charged with conspiracy, a dubious charge that just showed there was no evidence, only speculation.
Anonymous October 9, 2009 9:21 AM,
"the judicial in miami was not independent, all requests to move the trial was denied, all for political purposes..." It appears that the full apellate panel in Atlanta, and the US Supreme Court disagreed with that argument. So this had nothing to do with Miami but rather with the US judicial system.
"Can you tell me of direct experience you have with the court system in Cuba?"
Would you like specific case numbers? Just kidding! Would you agree that limiting oneself to discussing only those issues that one has personally experienced is rather limiting and that it goes against any notion of civilization? Otherwise let's all go back to inventing fire and the wheel!
"but please provide evidence the FIVE committed espionage against USA..." The best evidence that the so-called "Five" committed espionage was provided by the accused. They admitted to being Cuban intelligence officers engaged in intelligence collection on US soil. The Cuban government has never denied this assertion. Both the Cuban government and them have argued that they were justified in what they were doing. They all agreed that their actions were coordinated by Cuban intelligence officers in Cuba which provides admission of conspiracy.
BTW one of the Fives just agreed to a twenty year sentence rather than life in prison. Then there were Four.
If you go to war, do not complain that the other side is shooting at you.
Vecino de NF
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